Wednesday, March 25, 2009

Mistake #41 All-Girl Trips

Hey girls, so I hear you're going on a little all-girl vacation?

First, let me get this right. You spend all winter getting in shape from your eating fiascoes during the holiday season, and to reward yourselves you head on these week-long excursions with your lady friends? Okay, got it. Seriously?

I can understand if your guy friends have other things planned. Yes, we do have jobs of substance, but we do know how to put in a vacation day or two. However, I've heard through the grapevine that a few of your guy friends have asked to tag along and you shun them like the Bubonic Plague of the 1340's. What's the deal? Are we really that annoying to be around? Do you hate it when we can add a bit of history and background to the locale you plan on visiting? Are you going to all-women cities with all-women restaurants to do all-women shopping? H-No! So what's your hang-up?

Call me crazy, but doesn't this defeat the purpose of getting to know the opposite sex? I mean you cry and complain about having too many girl friends and not enough guy friends and then you hit us with this ultimate b-slap. I hope this isn't in retaliation to us not inviting you on any trips. Sorry, but you're the planners. Not to be sexist, but how many travel agents have you seen lately with "real" Y chromosomes? We really do appreciate your travel selections and are glad to accompany you.

I know that I'm just a naive guy, but from the looks of it, these are the only probable reasons on going sans-men:

1) You only go through this whole self-improvement phase to gain the approval of other rival women (which you secretly hate btw...)
2) You're actually trying to get your groove back in exotic places with non-MoMo guys. Stella, this only leads you down a slippery slope.
3) You feel uncomfortable with your body and you feel that only a girl can relate. (If I'm not mistaken, most of the comments from girls categorize men as "fat and balding." From that perspective, I think we can all be in agreement that your muffin top won't be a topic of discussion.)
3) You're just trying to get tanned with your girlfriends so you can attract guys later. Well crap, who's going rub tanning lotion on your back then?
4) You really have some pressing issues to mull over with your girls that a sleepover can't suffice.
5) You really love telling the guy who bought you an alcoholic drink that, "I can't, I'm Mormon."

Now, if you're gung-ho on making these trips, go ahead. At least mull over these potential problems:
  • No protection whatsoever. How much do you really trust 4'9", 97 lbs Trisha watching your back?
  • Sorry girls, but common sense in foreign locations never was your forte. See Brokedown Palace, Taken, Return to Paradise, & Missing in Aruba: The Natalee Holloway Case.
  • Add extra risk if you're a blonde. As much as the first guy seems flattering, the next 300 Italian men fondling you make American guys seem like Prince Charming.
  • Foreign guys DO NOT understand the word "No."
  • If you're getting taken advantage of at Meineke Car Care, good luck with Cantonese street markets, the Taj Mahal vendors, Cancun taxi drivers, or some sketch cabana boy in Majorca, Spain.
  • Who will you dance with? Will it be the guy who grinds you into a full on DH, or will it be Mr. Axe cologne who's just scouring the club for his next human trafficking victim.
  • Who will give you a blessing if you get hurt?
  • What are the chances you know the language...proficiently? Rosetta Stone only halfway works in a business meeting and is a non-factor when local colloquiallism is involved.
These aren't just rantings of a chauvinistic, bitter guy, these are also valid concerns that each one of your parents (at least the ones who actually care...) talk about before you head out into the unknown. So again, think twice. Better yet, just don't give us any crap at age 55 when we take golf trip pilgrimages and pay homage to every Robert Trent Jones designed course in the country.

Bon Voyage!!!!


  1. This post seems to lack the humor intended. As well as pushing that guys have jobs of substance whereas girls do not.

    Nor do I see how these trips cause girls to be single.

  2. meh- this one was a little more so/so for me- girls like to hang out with their girlfriends. no explanation needed- its just the way we are.

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  4. no offense ya'll, but did it occur to you that maybe we're leaving because the guys here obviously aren't interested, as plainly shown by out lack of friday night activities? remember that song 'girls just wanna have fun'? when you're away from people you know, you can let loose a little bit. mind you, by let loose i don't mean practicing table dancing skills in cancun,but you know...

  5. Most girls do have common sense and don't end up like those Hollywood movies. You have to give us more credit than that. Agree with Brenn.. girls need to have fun with girls and not some guy that's going to talk about themselves the whole time and creepily stare at us in swimsuits.

  6. For real? Is this really that big of an issue to waste a post on? The other posts have been about things we've all at least seen, but this one made me wonder if perhaps someone was left lonely this spring break...
    Seriously, not your best effort.

    Solution to the apparently rampant problem:
    Just take advantage of the situation and reinstall World of Warcraft on your computer while all us girls are away having fun. You know you'd have more fun playing video games than shopping for shoes anyway.

  7. Truth is, we (girls) don't think about the danger aspect of it because we're going on vacation and tend to have the whole "It won't happen to me" attitude (which may likely stem from feeling we're extra protected by the Spirit and are worthy to receive a prompting to warn us of impending danger; sad, I know). Bottom line is, we're going all-girl because a big group of girls is a lot more appealing to a group of guys than a big group of girls and guys (am I wrong?).
    I've done both (all girls and girls and guys from the ward) and to be completely honest the trips with the guys we knew were SO much more fun than going all-girl. The guys added a balance and took out the competitive edge which is what tends to make the all-girl trips stressful and dramatic, and made for much better, funnier (and fearless) times. Watch any episode from any season of The Bachelor, pre-final rose ceremony, and you'll see what all-girl trips usually become.

  8. If there were any guys worth staying home for I wouldn't go on an all-girls trip... Or better yet, if there were any guys worth bringing on my trip, they'd get an invitation... Sorry PP! ;)

  9. I also don't see how this is a reason why someone would be single. And as for the danger aspect of going on vacation without any men: I choose not to live in fear.

  10. I think I would be potentially okay with both men and women going on a trip, but I know my parents are not. They don't like the idea of the opposite sex sharing a hotel room that are not married (based on our doctrine of chastity, it could be easy to mess up), it goes back to the avoiding the appearance of wrong doing. Also sometimes I think having guys along can be stressful, because as we can tell from your blog, some men can be highly critical of everything women do and if we have to be concerned about impressing the guy that we like, having him along might not be so great if we are unsure of how he feels about us. On the other hand a girl who is completely confident will not mind in the least and will look forward to having an opportunity to shine.

    There are many valid reasons why we might not always invite guys along. A lot of Mormon men are obsessed with Lord of the Rings and Star Wars and I (as well as many other girls) can only handle so much talk of it. So it’s easy to pick on women, but if you look at the other side, Mormon men are not exactly catches that we all desire or want to spend our time with. I have met more Mormon women with Master Degree's then I have single Mormon men. Many of them live with their parents and play video games all the time and do not seem to know what the word “responsibility” and earning a living means. They don’t take care of themselves physically, mentally, spiritually or emotionally and yet they seem to think they are God’s Gift to women and we should all be interested in them.

    I have been blessed to date some really great Mormon men so I am not judging them all based on the observation above, but the good ones are hard to come by. I think you give some great advice on your blog, but you come across repulsive because of how critical you are and that is a turn off to women! I would rather be with someone who can see the positive in everyone and who looks more for the good in life then through critical lens of judgment (It is the more Christ-like approach). If you approached your blog in a kind informative way, you will go a lot farther with milk and honey then the tar that you spill out. Good luck on your quest and may you be invited on a Gals trip. I am sure we will all look forward to your next post about how awful it is traveling with women, Like we pack too much for a small trip, etc… I will leave the rest to you, I am sure you can come up with some better ones, because as we all know you are the expert! Emily T.

  11. Ha, those are all valid points. Can I add a few of mine own for the pro side of all-girl vacays? Some of these might not make sense to men, but I've known ladies to use some of these as 'valid' reasons.

    Maybe some women are going on a trip sans males because:

    - They're independent women and want to bask in their freedom
    - Maybe Jake hasn't asked Jenny (just random names for arguments sake) out on a date even though they've been calling and talking and hanging out for weeks. She's probably hoping that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and he'll miss her while she's gone a finally take charge and ask her out
    - It's quite possible that one or more of them have already been to that vacation spot before and don't need a tour guide or have friends already in the city to guide them around and watch over them. Women go on missions too.
    - Two words: GROUP DYNAMICS. I firmly believe that you learn the best and the worst about a person on trips. Maybe a particular girl in the group would behave differently, making the entire vacation horrendous (as in making all the mistakes you mention on the blog), were men present as opposed to an all women group. Or maybe one of the men wouldn't get along well with another girls somewhat snobbish cousin and that would ruin everyone's fun. I guess it's just a gamble sometimes.
    - Maintenance. Not all girls are low-key on vacation and like to get especially gussied up just because. Guys, on the other hand, usually don't like waiting for them to get ready(which mistake # is that on this blog?).
    - Lots of women like to save a portion of their trip for shopping. Do men?

    I love going camping and appreciate priesthood representation there but there's sometimes I just have to get out of town with a gal pal or two to have fun and talk about the guys in our lives. How are we supposed to talk about them if they're already there?

    I just got back from a trip to DC and her and I had a blast. If you want to come next time (June anyone?) lemme me know.

  12. I think women (myself included) are a little leery of inviting guys on trips because we've never been on a trip with guys without a chaperone. Think back to youth conference. Boys and girls were NEVER allowed to be even in the same vicinity alone, even if they weren't there "together."

    If I were planning a trip, and all the men and women were going to sleep in the same room... yeah, I wouldn't invite men either! If we had certain restrictions, sure, I'd be okay with it.

    Another thing: Guys go on trips alone all the time! Rock climbing trips, fishing trips, hiking trips, hunting trips, snowboarding/skiing trips, you name it! So it's fair that girls get their shot at an "all girl" trip too.

    Just my two cents.

    I also agree that this post doesn't seem as funny as the other ones...

  13. Here at WMGSS we are running out of things to write about...

    This entry lacked the relevance and humor I have grown to expect. Someone is slipping.

  14. Another thing that just came to my mind:

    You guys are always acting like it's our job to please you. But at the same time, we can't act desperate. It's a fine fine line. So... you don't want us acting desperate, but we can't go on a vacation without you? I don't get it.

    This really does just sound like someone got left home alone over spring break. Pity.

  15. Emily T. makes a very good point about the lack of maturity among mormon men, there seem to be a strange time period after the mission where they revert to being teenagers again. As to the Master's degrees, I don't count education majors so I'm not sure about more females than males, but there is a dearth of post-grad education in both sexes, resulting in wards filled with overall uninteresting people.

    That said, traveling with the opposite sex is a great experience. I have traveled both domestically and internationally with women and have had nothing but good experiences.

    Amber Jane: You stopped needing a chaperone the day you turned 18, you should probably get over that. There is nothing wrong with a little snuggling on a trip. And as to your guys alone trips, well I've have girl friends that I bring along on all of those trips, just need to have guy friends that share your interests.

    Hmmm. I believe I have begun to ramble, but in summary - travel with the opposite sex, it will make you more mature, rounded adults.

  16. To the last comment... AMEN! Hate to say it our religion breads immaturity if you don't get married.....

  17. Yep. Travel with guys is so fun. Keep in mind that you do not have to be interested in these guys. They do not have to be interested in you. Just pick a man friend who you do not hate and some other pals, and take a trip. Girl, don't grumble, the trip might create cause for you to have an entirely new sleep over to disccuss the important happenings on the trip!

  18. Albeit the blog is an over generalization, but so are the defensive responses. As one who has done the all girl thing (it was girl's camp sue me boys) I know it isn't what it is cracked up to be. Kelly texts her love interest the whole time who thoroughly enjoys that she won't just be dropping in, again, with another plate of toll house tubbed cookies, Jenny only wants to club or layout at the hotel because she only brought her Forever Young shoes she wanted to break in before the next break the fast, and Becky won't go anywhere not paved, powered, and public for the reasons mentioned in the blog,Ashley is on another diet nor will she eat anywhere that can not be found in the food court at the mall back home. So much for hiking, sight seeing, trying exotic foods,or meeting the locals. Just when you thought working on your graduate cultural anthropology project of indigenous people was going to happen because you were invited to a tribal celebration it gets interrupted by another shopping trip. Don't you know what is what catalogs are for? Enjoy the culture you are in!!! There are disco techs, malls, outlets, swimming pools,and macdonalds everywhere.
    I love traveling because I make friends everywhere I go, and not just with the locals. Occasionally I return and stay with them saving my hotel cost! You get past the chatter of the last episode of Stargate or Grey's Anatomy while traveling. Even if there is no spark within your group, Paul can tell dream boy how cool it was when your yodel echoed in the canyon as you jumped off the top of the waterfall.
    However, is vacationing really why girls stay single? or does this go back to the girls night argument?

  19. LoriAnn, it seems like an extension of the girls night issue.

    And to the point about foreign men not knowing the meaning of the word "no" I've heard a LOT of anecdotal evidence to back this up, thanks to the media that gets exported from the States the rest of the world regards American women as whores who will immediately jump into bed with a stranger or near-stranger, and while Europe is bad, the Middle East (including Egypt) is far worse about a lack of respect for women. Then again, maybe an experience like that is what you all need to appreciate the respect, restraint, and self-control of Mormon men.

  20. girls, clearly many of you are from provo where the only trip you take is to park city every other weekend. in the real world, people with jobs and salary like to take vacations- fun vacations. i've gone on girls vacas and trips with guys too. the author is saying if you shut guys out of these trips then you are missing out on a chance to get to know a guy. on every single trip i have taken with guys- SOMEONE always ends up in a relationship with someone else on the trip. vacas loosen you up, take you out of your environment where you have inhibitions, and let you see someone in a diff light. if you are planning a trip and wont invite guys just because you hate them- it is your loss. and he makes pretty valid points too about safety and things like that. forgive me, but i served a mission so YES i speak a foreign language fluently. but, many girls do not and the author is right, you would be putting yourself in a MUCH better position if you take your buddy who served in mexico with you on your next jaunt to south america to help you get around. they also know a thing or two about not getting ripped off by tourist traps. this post is nothing to be mad at the author about- the guys want to go on these trips to BE with YOU, so give them a chance. this is nothing to get your panties in a bind about.

  21. Taken was a bomb movie... Too bad my dad isn't Liam Neison.

  22. Dude, you sound like my mom. I regularly travel all by little lonesome, and surprise, surprise I return unscathed. You just have to use your brain and take some extra precautions. That being said, when given the option I definitely prefer traveling with guys for two major reasons 1) traveling alone gets boring 2) traveling with girls gets tedious (there will be at least one major drama incident, guaranteed). I for one do not understand the girls only vaca, and try to avoid it as much as possible.

  23. I love my girl vacations. All of us live in different parts of the country now and getting together once a year is something we all look forward to. We don't invite guys and what should it matter to anyone? Caymans, Mexico, and California are what we have hit up so far. My husband supports these trips because he knows its important to me.

  24. oh my gosh - I really wish I could meet you. I wanna know what you look like.

  25. No men reason to shave nothin' and that's a relief. Just saying.

  26. Hey Women. Do you ever consider that the authors of this blog write some of this stuff to get you riled up, to get your goat? Because you sure are giving him a lot of attention, however negative it may be.

  27. There is a reason that every post he creates is responsible for over 20 isn't JUST to get a rise out of the women...but it is working all the same...I wish my blog were as effective...but it is a family blog and few outside the family are gonna care about it...carry on PP...and well done...

    oh as far as the layout, don't give into it and change it...if people cannot tell the difference between what the LDS site is and what is true doctrine from what is pure satire and some humor, then we have bigger fish to fry...they could start at the address of the BLOG and realize that there are no humerous or satirical blogs from the church itself...after all you even have a disclaimer...I say caveat emptor..we have all been warned ;) lol

  28. Sorry you got left at home for spring break. Bummer dude.

  29. Have you ever thought that maybe they are going to get away from you?
    I agree with the comment that if you were wanted you would be extended an invitation.
    Sorry guys. Harsh but true. Take it from a married woman. We aren't as helpless as you make us out to be and that also means that we don't need you to have fun.

  30. Do you know what makes me sad about these comments? Well, a few things actually. But first, lets talk about the number of girls who are all "Oh yeah, totes. Girls are CATTY, and DRAMATIC and not like awesome fun boys." I have this pet peeve with girls who talk badly about other girls, especially in generalizations. Here's a novel idea, SOME girls are awful to travel with, and SOME girls are great! And! Get this: Conversely, some GUYS are just super to travel with, and some are NOT. I've been on awesome girl trips, and awesome coed trips. And I've been on lame trips of both types. And I truly in my heart do not believe that going on trip with just girls is impeding anyone's marital prospects. That's just dumb.

    And now on to what is bothering me even more about this post/comments. (Aren't public blogs fun?) I think its silly to say that girls shouldn't travel alone because they need protection, and it speaks to a deeper misogyny not only in Mormon culture, but on an almost global level. I'm not stupid. I'm not about to cruise around Lebanon in a mini skirt, where should I do that, I would expect some fairly unpleasant consequences. But to say that women shouldn't travel alone because of all that personal danger they're facing? Is dumb. And beyond that, there is a gross fearmongerish vibe to it. Can I quote another commenter here?

    "while Europe is bad, the Middle East (including Egypt) is far worse about a lack of respect for women. Then again, maybe an experience like that is what you all need to appreciate the respect, restraint, and self-control of Mormon men."

    Um...what? I am so squicked out by that comment. Yeah! Maybe women SHOULD be sexually harassed/assaulted! That'll learn 'em! I mean, come on Morguerat, Seriously?

    Having a vagina does not impede one's ability to research cultural norms and expectations or to gauge personal risk. And furthermore, in all my travels domestic or abroad, the only times I ever felt in actual danger of assault were in my own country, in the city where I lived. But I'm not about to start insisting on an escort to go with me to the grocery store. Instead of teaching girls to fear traveling on their own lest they should be raped because of their sinfully tempting bodies, or turned into drug mules because girls are just naturally so gosh golly naive (read: STUPID), How about teaching girls to recognize danger and say, trust their instincts? And go to effing Italy with your girlfriends should the opportunity arise. I'm just saying.

  31. two points.
    1. there is a 'utah syndrome' that i often refer to. any guy i've ever invited on a trip or asked out for fun has used his prune brain to deduce that i somehow like him and am trying to ambush him. sadly, there are precious few guys from utah or that have lived there an extended period of time, that are exempt from this disease.
    2. i realize that photo is just a random insert, but any group of 'mormon' girls all dressed like that ARE going out to get their wild thing on, and if you are the guy that wants to go with them...i guess you're not prince charming like you are trying to make yourself out to be in your reasonings.

  32. just add a shade shirt under the dresses and you have an average rs presidency at church. but on holiday?? they bust out those bikinis and trust me, some girls bust out of them, and I am not talking in the itsy bitsy kind of way, but the chubby bunny kinda way.

  33. What is this 1912? Heaven forbid we go somewhere without a big strong man to protect our virtue. You might be surprised to find that women are actually independent and quite capable of taking care of ourselves. This is the first time I have read your blog but quite frankly I am stunned by the sexist nature of it. You make women out to be helpless shallow beings.

  34. PS I love the fact you are advertising Snuggies on your blog. That's classic my friend, classic.

  35. "Um...what? I am so squicked out by that comment. Yeah! Maybe women SHOULD be sexually harassed/assaulted! That'll learn 'em! I mean, come on Morguerat, Seriously?"

    Squicked out? *rolls eyes* There was another post that I'm not seeing now or I'd quote it, about how terrible it is to be ogled by a guy they brought along. There are far worse things that are cultural norms outside of the US that regularly happen to strong feminist-minded women than being looked at. A shopkeeper in a Tunisian store who begins groping you for instance or being unable to walk down a street in Rome without being inappropriately touched a half dozen times(to name two incidents that happened to a dear friend of mine).

    Do not confuse me saying that people by and large are a lot less respectful of boundaries elsewhere as saying "You deserve this to happen to you," instead of "Be grateful we acknowledge and respect those boundaries."

  36. When you plan the trip - you can decide who goes.
    See. Maybe if men took initiative and planned something and invited the women to go along - ah wait - men who do that sort of thing are married already.

    And rather pathetic to paint women as walking victims.


  37. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  38. Hmmmmmm. Let me just take a guess as to who you are: Thirty-something, Narcissistic, commitment-phobe, LDS, closet homo?
    Just remember women can live without you. We can travel safely, and have a good time without a man around.
    Have a great time sitting alone this weekend with Dr. Laura. Us girls will be having the time of our lives.

  39. "... If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." My dear Brother Peter, your blog has entirely (and rather disrespectfully) missed the mark.

  40. say "hi" to your mom's basement for me.

  41. I think someone is bitter because he wasn't invited! I've done both--the mixed vacays and the all-girls and I have to say that both have their place. Sorry they didn't invite you!

  42. I, for one, have as much desire to go on an "all girl trip" as my wife has to go on a stadiumathon (see as many ballgames as is possible)or golfathon (how many holes can be played in a weekend)tour.

    HONESTLY, Where is the fun in holding her clothes and sitting outside of the dressing rooms all day waiting and hoping for what? some sort of intimacy that WILL NOT happen because she is not in the mood, and instead for the evening to happen and to go to shows/movies that SHE WANTED to see with HER friends and I am simply a 3rd wheel?

    Thanks all the same but, I couldn't care less for that kind of a trip and if it gets the wife out of the house a little bit and she can have her own fun, then just maybe, she may even miss me and that works more to my advantage than going with her...and it isn't about whether I like to have fun or not. I like to have fun as much as the next guy, I am taking my whole family to the Monterey Aquarium and you know what? it is SO for her and the kids. I want to make sure that we have family outings and memories that they will enjoy even if they don't remember it 5-10 years from now. It doesn't make me any kind of a saint, but I am sure I will enjoy it when I get there...

    all men trips for camping and fishing, baseball games and golfing HAS its place and therefore...all women trips have their place as well...

    sometimes it is the space that we provide our friends that brings them back to's a guy/girl that I like...why? Because they are NOT so clingy that I cannot get away from time to time...they actually "get it" and allow me to have my space when I need it so that I don't get claustrophobic in the relationship...IN I might date them MORE than before because I know that they will allow me to go out again and again with my friends and will not get jealous of the time that my friends have with me.

    I can't imagine WHY a guy would WANT to go on these ARE NOT going to get any action, let's be honest and be as shallow as men can be here...action is not part of the trip...more than get that out of the head...and let her go with her friends...or better yet, hello! It is March Madness! Shouldn't you be watching the Sweet 16/Elite 8 games? or if not basketball getting ready for the NFL draft or the beginning of baseball season?

    if you are not into sports...shouldn't you be overhauling your computer or downloading some new stuff that you didn't have time for before or arranging your Itunes or SOMETHING???? This is the time to do ALL of the stuff you NEVER have time to go do it...or go on a trip yourself with your own friends...but don't mope around waiting for her at all...because she sure isn't moping around for you...she is having a great time and hopes YOU are big enough to do the same!

  43. I travel all the time and have been all over, but I can never get guys to come with me they always flake out on me... Maybe an African safri is not something they are looking to do.... But I have always opened my trips to me guy friends and I always get stiffed. But I see your point on why to have men with you because I have been in that place where creepy guys don't know the meaning to No..

  44. Morguerat,

    I do not doubt that your friend had that extremely unpleasant experience. That is disgusting and wrong. But I do want to make the point that harassment/groping/assault happens everywhere. All the time. You are absolutely correct that some countries present more dangers than others, and yet I reject that this means that women should not go to such places, or that they should only go under the protection of their priesthood brethren. You cannot experience the world by sitting at home, and I certainly don't want to experience it through a filter. Women are very aware of their personal safety. It is pretty much a necessity of being female. My point is that women are capable of gauging the risk involved in travel. Sometimes that might mean choosing to travel with men, but then again it might not, and choosing to accept the risk is brave, not stupid.

    I want to thank you for clarifying your earlier comment, because I do think that distinction is an important one, and it certainly makes me feel less squicky :) Although I do want to say one more thing.

    'Do not confuse me saying that people by and large are a lot less respectful of boundaries elsewhere as saying "You deserve this to happen to you," instead of "Be grateful we acknowledge and respect those boundaries."'

    I think that it is interesting that women are expected to be grateful for the act of a man respecting her personal and sexual (which I'm assuming is what we are both talking about here) boundaries. Shouldn't that be expected? And please know that this is not a personal attack, because I don't think you wrote that to be offensive, nor do I find it so, but it does give me pause.

  45. Very good points.

    I met my husband on a non all girls trip to Italy. He speaks Italian....I don't. Yes, the guys protected us from the horny Italians, translated for us, and showed us around. Both of us agree, if we had met in any other circumstance neither one would have wanted to go on a second date with the other.

    I would have to disagree with you on one point: guys are perfectly capable of planning the trips. In fact, they can do it even better because they often times know which places to avoid when they have women with them.

    The person who planned our Italian vacation? My husband.

  46. Heather you have continually asked the wrong African safari sounds fantastic...I'm pretty sure I'd need my wife's permission lol...jk...

  47. only "Mormon" girls go on "all girls" trips? Last I checked, girls of every religion go on all girls trips because sometimes it's just nice to get away and be silly with other girls without the pressure of trying to impress someone. It doesn't mean that we are going out clubbing or flaunting ourselves to other guys, it just means we can finally go to all of our broadway shows, chick-flicks, get mani's and pedi's together, and not have some guy complaining that we are being, heaven forbid, "GIRLS!!". I know SEVERAL guys who go on the "all guys" week long camping trips. I could care less! Good for them! Let them have their guy bonding moments because sometimes they just need to be rugged and be a total guy and not have to worry about offending a lady. NO guy wants a needy woman...and NO woman wants a needy man. Maybe you should be a little less "needy" and go on an all guys trip! P.S. from the sound of your sensitivity towards being left out, I'm not sure you could save me if I was in trouble...I need a MAN not a boy!

  48. I was just introduced to your blog. After a brief skimming of your views, I have the following to offer:

    You're a misogynistic ass.

  49. Honey, you are an idiot. You have no idea what you're talking about. 1. Women have jobs as equally important and time consuming as yours. 2. When we go on vacation...we don't want to see you. We see you on Sunday and we know your crap already. We don't want to vacation with it.

    Let me just fill you in. Mormon men think they are God's gift to the universe. Italian men know that women are God's gift to the universe. Not just the blonds and the stick figures but every woman, no matter what her age, marital status, hair color.

    For someone trying to be the Mormon version of “He’s just Not that Into You…” and dispense dating advise…maybe you should actually learn about women first before you flap at the mouth.

    Maybe you should go to Italy and take lessons.

  50. Hannah,

    I'm a single father raising 3 beautiful daughters to be strong independent women. I'm anti-feminism, but pro-woman (most feminist thought is female empowerment at the expense of males, or misandry). I gave two examples that happened to one friend, I have dozens of other examples from dozens of other friends. I spent a year in Kuwait in the army, while there I traveled to Egypt, and the Holy Land (Jordan, and Israel). By and large, my observations have held up and been confirmed by every American woman I've talked to who has gone abroad. Not so much with the European women I talk to, but I'm not sure if they're more accepting of the occasional feel, or if it's just the perception that American women are easy that sets them against you like hounds after a hare. I suspect it's a combination.

    So to answer your question, Yes, you should absolutely expect people to respect your boundaries, sexual and otherwise, but understand that realistically, it's probably not going to happen.

  51. Lisa, you're ridiculous.

    I'm sure all those Italians you met at the club can't wait to treasure you for eternity. Or, at least until they get you in the sack.

  52. "Yes, you should absolutely expect people to respect your boundaries, sexual and otherwise, but understand that realistically, it's probably not going to happen."

    I will always expect the men of my faith to respect such boundaries as they are supposed to share them.

    And now, lets talk about the Mormon version of the f word. Feminist. I don't expect this random comment on a satire blog to have much of an impact on you, but since you brought it up I'm going to go ahead and say that I hope you will re-examine your views on women vs. feminism. So that we don't have to argue about the definition of feminism I looked it up on wikipedia: "Feminism is the belief that women should have equal political, social, sexual, intellectual and economic rights to men."

    That's it. If you believe that women should have the same fundamental rights as men, then I have to tell you, you are a feminist. But don't worry, because it works both ways! Men need to have the same fundamental rights as women. Misandry and Misogyny are equally wrong, but I think we need to be honest in looking at which is currently having the bigger impact on our society, both locally and globally. We don't have to exchange one oppression for the other, and if true equality is ever going to be achievied between the sexes it has to come from both sides. /soapbox

  53. "I will always expect the men of my faith to respect such boundaries as they are supposed to share them."

    As it should be.

    While the definition of feminism is equality, and I'm all for that. In the church, feminism is a dirty word. Looking at NOW for instance, it wants very little to do with actually helping women (or else it would be up in arms over islam and it's treatment of women, condoning wife-beating as a punishment, encouraging FGM (aka female circumcision), "honor" killings for perceived slights against the family's honor, etc etc.

    As I said, I'm pro-woman. Using the F-word to describe ANYTHING or ANYONE also carries the decades of man-hate from primarily man-hating lesbians that carried the movement forward. 200 years ago in America women were little better than property, being unable to own land, run businesses, vote, travel alone(for the most part), inherit, etc etc.

    All of that has changed, and women have all the same legal rights as men, as well as preference in MANY areas, like during a divorce, property distribution, and custody of children. Female law enforcers are able to escalate threats of violence and shoot suspects with much less scrutiny (a large male suspect who approaches a female officer threateningly can be shot, and she would have a much more valid claim to feeling like her life was in danger as justification for the shooting). In domestic disputes and awarding of PFA's or Restraining Orders, the courts are designed to favor women. They don't have to sign up for the selective service. I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong, but recognize that women have far more legal protections than men, and even the sole remaining "chivalry" law in the military (no women in combat jobs) has largely disappeared with the asymmetrical style of combat now seen in Iraq and Afganistan where there are no front lines to "protect" female soldiers from.

    AND at the same time, they have all of the same legal and most of the social rights of men (yeah, you still get called a slut if you sleep around, while it's expected of -non-mormon- men). All that's really left to the feminist movement is women who are angry at men, oh and rampant hypocrisy in their treatment of vice-presidential candidates just because she's a Republican. (and surprise surprise, I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Ralph Nader because of a Sesame Street skit 20 years ago, which qualified him more than either of the other two jerks that were available from the big 2.)

    All that's really left to the feminist movement IS taking things away from men, because they've gotten everything else that was unequal.

  54. Ever think it's a money issue? Or maybe vacations are where girls go to look like crap, and all they want is their girl friends there with them.

  55. "Using the F-word to describe ANYTHING or ANYONE also carries the decades of man-hate from primarily man-hating lesbians that carried the movement forward."

    Wow, I didn't realize I had the lesbians to thank for so much! Although, I think the thousands of heterosexual women who participated will be a tad disappointed that they don't get any credit.

    "While the definition of feminism is equality, and I'm all for that. In the church, feminism is a dirty word."

    Agreed. But that doesn't mean it should be.

    "Looking at NOW for instance, it wants very little to do with actually helping women (or else it would be up in arms over islam and it's treatment of women, condoning wife-beating as a punishment, encouraging FGM (aka female circumcision), "honor" killings for perceived slights against the family's honor, etc etc."

    And this was when I decided that we don't actually need to be arguing this. Because to me that IS the feminist cause. Fortunately you're right that in most legal respects women and men are said to be equal. But until we actually deal with the social injustices and eliminate the appalling violence that continues to go on against women, I don't think we can really claim full equality. But I guess I don't mind if you don't want to call yourself a feminist. I understand that it is a loaded title, but I do hope that you won't jump to conclusions about those who do use it, because it sounds to me like in the end we kind of have the same opinion. Well, except about Nader :)

  56. In my experience, all-girl trips materialize when the men have disappeared. If there are men we are dating or men who are actually making the effort to date AT ALL, we don't head out of town without them.

  57. As I said, I'm very pro-woman, but I oppose the label "feminist" because of the connotations it's picked up.

    Regarding Ralph:

    I thought it made him an acceptable protest vote in a situation where I couldn't see a "lesser evil"

  58. Continuing my thoughts from March 25, 10:25pm

    While I can't presume to say what the OP's intentions were with the post, I don't think it was to imply that women are either incapable of traveling by themselves or that they should never go on all girl trips, but rather that both LDS men and women would benefit from traveling together.

    I find that girls that are capable of planning and carrying out a serious trip are to be admired. At the same time, I find it perturbing that mormon women find all kinds of obstacles to traveling with men. "Avoid the appearance of evil" - more like avoiding meaningful social interaction that might actually help you become a mature adult.

    I've traveled mutiple countries for extended periods of time with women, shared rooms, beds, amazing experiences and great memories. These women were independent, usually continued traveling after we parted ways, and were fully capable of the same trip without a guy. That said, its always more fun, safe, and interesting. Unfortunately I've never been able to get an LDS girl to go on such a trip. Lack of passports, desire, "what would my parents think", and sundry other reasons have been given. Like another poster said, there doesn't have to be any interest in the guy (or the guy for the girl) beyond friendship to have a great time traveling, and the benefits to both parties are numerous.

    I only post this because there is in my opinion, a huge shortage of adventurous, well rounded mature LDS women AND men. IMNSHO this stems from a lack of adult interaction, narrow world views (especially for ya'll that have spent your entire lives in Utah). Get out and travel.

    And in a preemptive response to those who assume all men who enjoy this blog live in their parent's basement, I've got a post-graduate education, a passport full of stamps, and a healthy social life which doesn't revolve around FHE.

  59. For Morguerat,

    "Looking at NOW for instance, it wants very little to do with actually helping women (or else it would be up in arms over islam and it's treatment of women, condoning wife-beating as a punishment, encouraging FGM (aka female circumcision), "honor" killings for perceived slights against the family's honor, etc etc."

    It is true that the NOW is active on a wide range of issues, but your statement is inaccurate. Here are some goals taken from the "2009 agenda" page of NOW's website (

    * Pass the International Violence Against Women Act (IVAWA), which provides an opportunity for the United States to be a leader in preventing violence against women around the world.

    * Provide asylum rights for women to protect them from violence and end "honor killings," forced marriages, genital mutilation, femicide, child marriages, mass rape as a weapon in armed conflict, and other atrocities.

  60. And what active steps has it taken to acheive any of that? Have they raised awareness of Amina and Sarah? (Two teen girls in Texas who were murdered for dating non-muslim boys, their father is the prime suspect, and still at large)

    How about a case in Dearborne Michigan last year where a woman was sexually assaulted in her apartment complex hallway for 45 minutes while neighbors heard the screaming, some entered and exited their apartments, and nobody called the police?

    I've never heard or seen any of these types of things mentioned by NOW or any of their spokes(wo)men, They ignore the populations that commit these things in America, rage against it outside of the US, and "urge our leaders to take action against such injustice against women" but refuse to raise their voice here because they don't want to offend any religion, ethnic, or political group that votes for the Democratic Party causes. They throw women in America under the bus in exchange for the political power they can garner through lobbyists and feel-good causes.

  61. For f***'s sake.

    I hope I never meet you, ever, because I don't think I'd be able to resist a kick to your chin.
    I don't like it when guys like you take us girls for granted.

  62. I hope you're able to overcome your unChristlike attitude.

  63. This comment has been removed by the author.

  64. You know what I think my favorite part about reading this blog is? That would be some reader's complete inability to appreciate satire.

    While clearly the author has a--shall we say pronounced?--viewpoint, one has to admit not only the base truths found within his arguments, but admire the forthrightness with which the opinions are conveyed. Of course the fact that he is anonymous takes away a little bit of the moxie.

    Finally commenting on this specific topic:
    Both sides of the argument have merits in this case. On the one hand I would much rather go on a vacation that has both guys and girls going along. It certainly makes backpacking across Europe far more entertaining and the group balanced. And I don't discount the "safe" bit. While I admit to being rather independent, I'm not going to lie I love that I can call a guy in my ward and he can walk me down from campus when it's late. Even though I don't like to ask for help, sometimes I have to admit that other people can do things that I can't. And I love that I can take a friend (whether guy or girl is immaterial) with me who is totally at home in a foreign culture. If it's a guy that can protect and give blessings if needed, not to mention cuddle with, all the better.

    On the other hand. I can appreciate the need for girls only and guys only trips. I like to hang out with my girl friends to talk about boys--and as someone already pointed out--it's hard to talk about boys when they are there. I further agree with this portion of a comment that was already made:
    "...because sometimes it's just nice to get away and be silly with other girls without the pressure of trying to impress someone. It doesn't mean that we are going out clubbing or flaunting ourselves to other guys, it just means we can finally go to all of our broadway shows, chick-flicks, get mani's and pedi's together, and not have some guy complaining that we are being girls. I know several guys who go on the "all guys" week long camping trips. Good for them! Let them have their guy bonding moments because sometimes they just need to be rugged and be a total guy and not have to worry about offending a lady. NO guy wants a needy woman...and NO woman wants a needy man."

  65. I would have to disagree with you on this subject- I have a wonderful 'girls trip' planned for May- there are 10 girls going. We are going on a 10 day cruise to the Caribbean- I have held off on taking this trip several times in hopes of going with some great guy. But guys don't ask girls out let alone go on a trip with them and I am sick of waiting- I am very excited to take this trip with the 'girls' and think it will be a great vacation. I have since met a wonderful guy after booking our trip- yes I will miss him, yes I would love him to go but he is excited for my to go have a good time with my friends.

  66. P.P. Do you truly believe your sexist remarks? Claiming your beliefs as part of the "priesthood" is an affront to all LDS members, the Gospel, and in my opinion God. You are perpetuating the worst parts of humanity. Please open a book, any book and read it.

  67. I am all about the coed vacation (prefer it actually), but I've found it's often hard to get the guys to actually commit to going. I currently have a trip planned to Mexico with 8 girls and we've invited probably 20 different guys to go and gotten only lame responses in return about needing to work, too busy, can't commit that far in advance, and an endless number of other excuses. Plus there is the hassle of managing the male egos if you don't have the right mix of people which makes the vacation a little less of a vacation. It's just easier to stick with the girls and be guaranteed a good time.

  68. Oh, you're so wrong 8:41PM anonymous!

    Mormon dudes aren't busy - they live in their parents basement and play video games! They don't keep schedules, and if they didn't the schedules would be wide open becasue they are balding, uneducated, and overweight!

    Mormon girls don't want to date them - too good for them! GIRL POWER!


  69. I'm pretty sure that girls can handle a trip without being kidnapped, raped, or murdered (despite your Hollywood allusions). If you're basing your argument solely on popular thrillers, you might also want to consider every horror movie where the presence of some guy friends isn't enough to keep all but a few principal characters from being killed. Just saying.

  70. True story, I had to kiss a taxi driver in Cancun after he saved my friend from being thrown in jail after she broke something at the market and refused to pay their jacked up price.

  71. A guy really can't save you if you're taking a trip anywhere potentially dangerous (unless he has 'special skills'). So, just use your brain when you're deciding where to take your vacation. As far as opting for an all girl trip--why not? Don't assume that every activity is about getting married. IF the guy is fun though, sure, why not take him?--as long as the other girls are okay with it AND the vacation isn't specifically deemed ALL-GIRL. But if he's annoying or some player OR if any of the other girls can't be themselves around a guy, don't do it. It'll ruin the fun.