Friday, February 20, 2009

Mistake #29 Why Buy the Cow if You Can Get the Milk for Free? by DS


There is one lesson that girls never seem to learn: that which we obtain too easily we esteem too lightly. If a boy respects a girl, he will wait to kiss her. Time and time again girls complain that a guy played them. And guys complain that girls think they're in relationships. The underlying concept is not incredibly difficult - men use love to get sex and women use sex to get love. Ladies, he's not going to date you if he can make out with you without any strings attached.

Let's walk through a few scenarios, shall we?


Kiss Without Ever Going on a Date - That was easy! (I once knew a girl who's siblings gave her a Staples Easy button for this very reason) Ladies, if he hasn't already, don't expect him to take you on a date if you've already kissed. Do, however, expect him to want to watch a few movies with you. Late at night. When your roommates are gone. Embrace the fact that it's not going to work out. His respect for you has plummeted to the basement. But on the bright side, you now have a friend for those lonely nights.


Kiss on the First Date - Listen ladies, I know he was charming. And he's cute. He has a nice job, and is active in church. He smiled. It was magic. Unfortunately, you just ruined your chances with this boy. Your emotional relationship progressed to… nowhere. And now that the physical's involved, the emotional development is going to take a back seat. Is it too late to fix it? Probably. Strap on in and enjoy the 3-week ride.


Kiss on the Second Date - Different strokes for different folks. It's still quite early, but whatever.


Kiss on the Third Date - This is expected. If you don't want to kiss him, don't go on a third date. Make up an excuse. Perhaps your best friend just got dumped. Or cheated on. Or maybe you just already have plans. You could have really bad cramps. The point is that you can't go on that date unless you're willing to kiss him.


This post would be pointless if I didn't take a moment to address another critical issue (that will no doubt be addressed in the comments). Kissing means different things to different people. Especially in Mormon culture. When a boy kisses a girl he thinks "Wow, this feels good". When a girl kisses a boy she thinks "He likes me, he likes me!" Is either train of thought better than the other? Not necessarily. Boys and girls, please be aware of the other point of view and know what you're getting into.


And ladies… don't hate the player. Hate the game.

43 comments:

  1. Generally speaking, true. But there have been a few girls I've kissed on the first date who I was genuinely interested in.

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  2. I sense more than a modicum of truth in this, from my own experiences, carry on.

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  4. Spot on. I can't agree with you more on this one.

    David O. McKay said, back when he had his own Priesthood/RS Manual:
    "In the presence of the girl you truly love you do not feel to grovel; in her presence you do not attempt to take advantage of her; in her presence you feel that you would like to be everything that a [great man] should become, for she will inspire you to that ideal. And I ask you young women to cherish that same guide. What does he inspire in you … ? When a young man accompanies you after a meeting, or after a dance, and he shows an inclination to use you as a convenience or as a means of gratification, then you may put it down that he is not prompted by love."

    Oh and this libtard Caitlin Flanagan wrote a stunning analysis of the allure of Edward and the whole Twilight phenomenon a few months back: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200812/twilight-vampire

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  5. This is a sad blog. I'm a mormon boy, and I date. If I like a girl, I date her. Kiss on the first date, first hang-out, third date, whatever. If I don't like her, sure we might not make it to a 3rd date. Silly rules. You girls keep trying to figure the 'game' out though. Good luck with that.

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  6. I have been dating a "Kiss on the First Date" guy for nine months now... SO THERE!

    With me being the exception to the rule, I agree with everything in this post.

    I love being the exception.

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  7. This is the very reason I have never kissed anyone: Because I am not going to kiss someone unless I am willing to be in a relationship with them.

    I also agree that girls loose respect when they will let a guy kiss her on the first (or before) date. I also think guys loose respect when they will kiss a girl without being "in to" her.

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  8. Way to state the obvious! And there are always exceptions. Good try though. How about addressing the issue of dating and kissing more than one person, playa?

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  9. \disagree. analysis fail.

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  10. Mormon Prostitution at its best. How little are we expected to 'sell' our affections for? Dinner? A movie? Mini golf? Games with his buds? This selling of our bodies ranges from the almost never negotiated hug good night to the third date kiss. All for what? To fill the carnal (but oh so necessary to procreation and therefore exaltation)urge to feel another person. That physical need is just as much a part of love as emotion is.
    The trouble many young actively dating adults have is the discernment process of hormones vs harmony, in other words kisses of poor providence. Do you go for the kiss now, which is immediate gratification and the emotional damming of future gratification with this person, or do you wait, controlling the impulse and receive an expediential increase of finer physical gratification with superior emotional validity. Bottom line, physical affection is an emotional investment.

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  11. I agree with this for sure. My husband and I have actually talked about it with friends too. He waited to kiss me and I was like what the heck! When we were married the conversation came up and he said he only kissed the girls he respected and really liked after a couple of dates, which makes a lot of sense. I also dated the other guy, and yes we never went on a date, and he would come over late at night, haha! That only happened a couple times and I said peace out!

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  12. I took me and my girlfriend 6 weeks to kiss! Dang I caught a good one I guess. I remember dating some LDS girls and the would seem to shame the line 'you had me at hello' because they skipped all that jazz and went right to. 'Do you know what a nicmo is?

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  13. While I disagree with any set rule (ie don't go on a date unless you're ready to kiss the guy) I wholeheartedly agree with the point about developing the emotional part of the relationship before adding the physical.

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  14. I have just discovered your blog and am quite ashamed to admit I've spent the better part of an hour being highly entertained! Thank you.

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  15. Painfully, painfully true.

    Why do we try and substitute a physical relationship for an emotional one?

    ARgh.

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  16. To some of the previous points, I think most of the contents of this are generalities. There are exceptions to everything. I agree, though. A girl needs to set boundaries and stick to them so she doesn't get taken advantage of. I've had boyfriends that made me feel that the only thing they wanted out of a relationship was the physical. Like they wanted to completely disregard the entire emotional aspect. That's not what any girl should want.

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  17. Lets be honest every man including myself has a "booty call" the girl that you kiss without ever taking out! And when they do talk about going out on a date....you kick em to the curb and find another!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHA

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  18. not everyone is looking for a boyfriend when they are in the mood for a hookup.

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  19. Man so many of the posts on this blog describes my girlfriend who is yes still single, in her late 20's and yes currently has a boy she makes out with but they're not official. sad sad sad... do you know her? is that where you get the ideas from? haha ;)

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  20. Men aren't the only ones with a booty call.....
    just saying.

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  21. re: Elder; "I took me and my girlfriend 6 weeks to kiss! Dang I caught a good one I guess. I remember dating some LDS girls and the would seem to shame the line 'you had me at hello' because they skipped all that jazz and went right to. 'Do you know what a nicmo is?"

    Ugh, the very idea of nicmo's disgusts me, I find it little different than the overnight marriage->divorces BYU students used to get in Vegas to morally justify fornicating. I'd like to point out and remind everyone that needs it, that Pres. Kimball addressed the issue long before many of you were alive.

    In The Miracle of Forgiveness, by Elder Spencer W. Kimball, we read: "Too often, young people dismiss their petting with a shrug of their shoulders as a little indiscretion, while admitting that fornication is a base transgression. Too many of them are shocked, or feign to be, when told that what they have done in the name of petting was in reality fornication. The dividing line is a thin, blurry one."

    "All those who have slipped into the disgraceful and most reprehensible habit of transgressing through petting should immediately change their lives, their habits, and their thought patterns, repent sorely in 'sackcloth and ashes,' and by confession get so far as possible a clearance from the Lord and the leaders of his Church so that a measure of peace may accompany them through their lives.

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  22. Kissing and petting are completely and entirely different, if you don't know the difference ask your parents, bishop, or roommate.
    NCMO (not nicmo) and kissing in a short lived relationship are also very different from each other.
    The NCMO is based on the pretense that it is going no where and usually (hopefully) mutual, aka the booty call. Sometimes you can keep the same partners whilst keeping a separate active social life, however the longer the booty call happens the more likely one if the partners will get crush and therefore crushed. You can also just NCMO cause you have some 'tension' and know that somethings are better than a free meal. No loss if you don't see each other again. Or be an adult and behave maturely as one would after an actual break up.
    Kissing someone too soon and then realizing it is going no where is another story. Before the kiss you were open to the idea of a relationship. The kiss didn't ruin it (necessarily) but the lack of emotional connection.
    Regardless of personal morals regarding the kissing, have some tact. No kissing and telling. This means, don't tell people what to do or not do, regarding the kiss, or announcing the kiss. Trust me, it really wasn't that special, no one cares, if they do, they are jealous. Be the example of what you want people to follow.

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  23. Elder it only took your girlfriend 6 weeks to kiss you because she didn't know how the dating game operated. She had never dated anyone before. Also let's be honest, she was a bit socially retarded thanks to her overly strict mormon upbringing. Also I agree with LoriAnn. Men aren't the only lds young adults looking for a booty call. I've had roommates make out with 2 different guys in one weekend. NCMO's are what they look forward to on the weekends. NCMO's are never going to get anyone anywhere in the end. There must be commitment and respect.

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  24. Do you think it's wrong to make the guy wait a lot longer than the third date--or even longer than that?

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  25. Re: "Kissing and petting are completely and entirely different, if you don't know the difference ask your parents, bishop, or roommate.
    NCMO (not nicmo) and kissing in a short lived relationship are also very different from each other.
    The NCMO is based on the pretense that it is going no where and usually (hopefully) mutual, aka the booty call."


    Thank you for missing the point entirely, while kissing isn't petting, the motivation behind an NCMO is lust, just as surely as petting, or fornication. It's still SIN. By definition there is no attachment, it's the Mormon equivalent of a NSA sexual encounter and is just as much an exercise in lustful expression.

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  26. Re: Sarah Beesley: "Do you think it's wrong to make the guy wait a lot longer than the third date--or even longer than that?"


    Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to have to wait until I'm at the altar before having my first kiss with my Eternal Companion, but if you aren't prepared to kiss, don't kiss. I would suggest finding an alternative way to express affection, as a kiss is a pretty easy cue for guys to pick up on (and lets face it, we're pretty dense all of the time), a peck on the cheek might suffice as a substitute for a liplock or tongue rassle. ;) But mostly, be honest and communicate, if you don't want to kiss, just make it clear that it's got nothing to do with the guy, just a commitment to wait a little longer.

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  27. Weird. I've always been under the impression that if I spend over 40 bucks, that gets an automatic kiss, regardless of the number of dates. Shoot.

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  28. Re: Sarah Beesley: "Do you think it's wrong to make the guy wait a lot longer than the third date--or even longer than that?"


    The only relationship I've been in that lasted longer than a couple months was when I waited almost four months to kiss her. By that point, we'd become each other's best friend. I loved it! Our relationship meant the world to me and every kiss had meaning. I am a HUGE fan of waiting to kiss.

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  29. Actually I think he did get your piont Mr. Morgue, and was simply illustrating that kissing is not fornication. I whole heartedly agree that lust is a sin, the very reason why masturbation is a sin. However, I don't think all NCMO encounters are based upon lust. While superficial needs from a physical base(erotica) are fulfilled, there is also the underlying latent need of human contact. Where I am not in any way encouraging the abuse of such affection, a NCMO is not something that will get anyone into any trouble (unless they are married or a missionary).To which there were prior established covenants to purity and virtue. Unless your NCMO encounters are perverting the rights to pure and virtuous living, it is not lustful and probably not a sin. I say this having been 'guilty' of NCMO without arousal, but it is fulfilling emotionally for me that this person wants me in some way, I am validated. Even though there was no prior conceived intention, I am desirable. But supporting the original article's main idea, that putting out easily won't produce the Mr/Mrs. degree you long for, so don't give away your kisses like pretzels.
    If in fact there is arousal during NCMO, arousal that is given into and heightened then yes there is a sin, or sexual transgression. But many people, those who are so casual about the NCMO, know their limit, and if they were going to push it beyond the blurring line of sexual trangression, it no longer is only kissing. But while you are on the self righteous path, you should reconsider your virtue being willing to "tongue rassle ;)", which would be the soul kissing referred to. Unless your soul wasn't in it, which therefore borders the line of commitment and honesty in which you seemed to have preached.

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  30. Will Grow 2 B An Old MaidFebruary 24, 2009 at 8:39 PM

    "tongue rassle"?? eww that sounds too gnarly to me. I would never kiss on a first date but on the third, probably. That's something I learned from the movie "Hitch". lol 8 out of 10 women look forward to the kiss or something like that.

    Actually too be completely honest, I don't think I could even kiss on a first, 2nd, 3rd or 4 dates! I'm too scared! I would probably wait 5 months maybe... but definitely not during my wedding day to have it the first time. how awkward would that be if you're going to marry someone and you don't know how to kiss them? lol And I don't like all these NCMO methods, it just sounds like leading to casual sex. And I'm a little germophobic.

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  32. LoriAnn, I'm 28, a divorced single father (yes, w/ custody of my kids), went into the Army instead of the mission field (gasp and astonishment, not an RM), and pursued the carnal side of life, it led to a lot of pain and suffering (hence, the divorce).

    You consider it self-righteousness, I see it as speaking from experience that pushing against the bounds what's acceptable, or redefining it saying "sin a little," or "it's not serious if I don't cross this line, but I'm wise enough to brush up against it, grind it, and give it a lapdance without going over..." Well, the term "slippery slope" comes to mind, as well as "unintended consequences."

    In the Navy there's a term "Flat Hatting" for pilots who would fly as close to the ground as they possibly could without crashing, and it was extremely popular in the 40's and 50's among young pilots. The dangerous thrill-seeking led to the deaths of many young men who would have otherwise had longer lives and highly decorated careers. The same can be said about the purity of those who recklessly engage in and try to justify NCMO's.

    Will Grow 2 B An Old Maid: "And I don't like all these NCMO methods, it just sounds like leading to casual sex."

    I'm right there with you.

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  33. Having converted to the Church when I was 23 years old and having lived a less than pristine life prior to my conversion, I had quite a learning curve coming into the Church.

    Recently I discovered the term NCMO and I was appalled that young Latter-Day Saints found this acceptable. Perhaps a reading of 2 Timothy: 3 is in order for some folks. Pay particular attention to being without affection.

    A NCMO sounds to me like two people objectifying one another in an intimate sense. That bodes ill for both parties. I think Morguerat hit the nail on the head.

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  34. Thanks,

    I'd also like to say I'm expecting to hear NCMO's mentioned specifically in General Conference in the next year or two, or maybe they'll just save it for a CES Fireside/Broadcast

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  35. I was inactive for many years...led to it by walking along that fine line and testing boundaries because I thought I was strong enough...and I'm a strong person. What I realized is Satan is SOOOO much stronger than any of us here because he has memory where we have the veil and he's a whole lot more experienced than we are. I used to love NCMO's before I went inactive...and if you think you can do that without lust being involved from one or both of the parties, you are sadly mistaken and should go take a close look in the PRIDE mirror because its there but its hard to see with your PRIDE in the way. Satan coached me every step of the way with just a little here and a little there and a justification for all the little steps. What I found was misery and sin. Kissing just to be kissing someone is Satan's little step to bigger things. Do you think you could ever imagine Christ saying, "Ya, its ok to make out with my son/daughter of God because you should get a little too. Just make sure it doesn't go too far. Oh and make sure that he/she knows its just for fun and you don't really care about him/her." If you can, you belong to the wrong church and are in strong denial. We are all children of God and He doesn't look lightly upon the objectifying/misuse of His other children and the glorious gift of procreation which He has given us.

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  36. Thank you for expressing so beautifully and eloquently what I tried to say.

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  37. To the author: wow, you did a good job of simplifying what could be a book on relationships: once the physical hits, it's hard to keep the emotional the biggest part. Save the physical for last/later- it's the most precious and what you'll most regret if the truly important stuff- the emotional/etc- doesn't work between the two of you.

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  39. People, People - When you find the one, I hope it is hard to wait..not only the kissing but all the "other" things too. When my sweetie kissed (2nd date) me it rolled down my socks, blew up my hair and melted the elastic in my underwear!! Its been 20 years and he still "gets" to me. Self control is the watch word, follow the commandments but.. I hope there is sizzle too, eternity is a long time.

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  40. I agree in most situations. First date HECK NO. Second date, still too soon. Third date, it's OK if you're into him enough and he's into you enough. Fourth date, either I'm crazy about the guy and it's driving me nuts that we haven't, or there's nothing there and it's time to move on. NICMOs shouldn't occur on dates... only hang outs otherwise they get the wrong idea.

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  41. Foxyredhead: "NICMOs shouldn't occur."

    Fix'd that for you.

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  42. i just found your blog, and this is one of those truths that makes me want to scream. my very close friend got sucked into a relationship with the most moronic girl on the planet. eventually they started sleeping together and she's always going around crying that he won't marry her. um, honey? why would he marry your stupid face if he can get laid without the commitment? DUH. i don't get why ppl can't comprehend this concept.

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